Who is Jesus?

Was He present in the Old Testament?

What about the Trinity?

Honestly - This is a very complicated area that we may not fully understand until we meet the Lord personally; there are tons of "experts" who give their opinion and views, (Christian and non-Christian), so instead of taking a side and arguing one way or another, let me simply give facts, and we'll use what philosophers call a "cumulative case argument," to measure out all the facts, lay them before you, and see where the evidences point.

*We must remember that for all intent purposes "God" has not and can not be seen:

  1. (Exodus 33:20 ) – “But He [God] said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live !"
  2. (John 1:18 ) – “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
  3. (John 5:37 ) – “"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”
  4. (John 6:46 ) - "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”

 A few points to just ponder over.  *Starting first from the Old Testament, then the New Testament, and finally extra non-Biblical sources:

Genesis 1:26Then God said, "Let (A )Us make (B )man in Our image, according to Our likeness. 

1)  Why is the plural used?

Genesis 18

The Three Visitors

 1 The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

 3 He said, "If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, [a ] do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant."
        "Very well," they answered, "do as you say."

 9 "Where is your wife Sarah?" they asked him.
        "There, in the tent," he said.

 10 Then the LORD [c ] said, "I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son."
        Now Sarah was listening at the entrance to the tent, which was behind him. 11 Abraham and Sarah were already old and well advanced in years, and Sarah was past the age of childbearing. 12 So Sarah laughed to herself as she thought, "After I am worn out and my master [d ] is old, will I now have this pleasure?"

 13 Then the LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh and say, 'Will I really have a child, now that I am old?' 14 Is anything too hard for the LORD ? I will return to you at the appointed time next year and Sarah will have a son."

 15 Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, "I did not laugh."
        But he said, "Yes, you did laugh."

2) Who was Abraham talking to?

 

Genesis 22

 1 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!"
        "Here I am," he replied.

 2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."

 3 Early the next morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4 On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 He said to his servants, "Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you."

 6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, "Father?"
        "Yes, my son?" Abraham replied.
        "The fire and wood are here," Isaac said, "but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?"

 8 Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together.

 9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!"
        "Here I am," he replied.

 12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

 13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram [a ] caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."

3)  Could this be a foretelling of Christ's own sacrifice?

Jacob Wrestles with God

 Genesis 32:22 During the night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two servant wives, and his eleven sons and crossed the Jabbok River with them. 23 After taking them to the other side, he sent over all his possessions.

24Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak.

 25When he saw that he had not prevailed against him, he touched the socket of his thigh; so the socket of Jacob's thigh was dislocated while he wrestled with him.

 26Then he said, "Let me go, for the dawn is breaking." But he said, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."

 27So he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob."

 28He said, "Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have struggled with God and with men and have prevailed."

 29Then Jacob asked him and said, "Please tell me your name." But he said, "Why is it that you ask my name?" And he blessed him there.

 30So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, "I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved."  

4)  Who did Jacob wrestle with?

Exodus 12:7, 12-13

7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs.

 12 "On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn—both men and animals—and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD. 13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.

John 1:29

 29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

5)  Is the blood of the lamb in Exodus the same as John the Baptist referring to Christ?

 

Exodus 25:8

 8 "Then have them make a sanctuary for me, and I will dwell among them."

Exodus 29:45-46

45 Then I will dwell among the Israelites and be their God. 46 They will know that I am the LORD their God, who brought them out of Egypt so that I might dwell among them. I am the LORD their God.

6)  So did God or His Spirit inhabit the Tabernacle?

1 Kings 6:11-20 (New International Version)

 11 The word of the LORD came to Solomon: 12 "As for this temple you are building, if you follow my decrees, carry out my regulations and keep all my commands and obey them, I will fulfill through you the promise I gave to David your father. 13 And I will live among the Israelites and will not abandon my people Israel."

7)  Can God really live in a Temple like this?

8)  Is it a coincidence that Christ said this in reference to the 2nd Temple?

John2:19Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

 20The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" 21But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

9) Is it also a coincidence that the Temple was destroyed by the Romans shortly after Christ's death?

Isaiah 43:11 

 11 I, even I, am the LORD,
         and apart from me there is no savior.

 I have heard many Christian and non-Christian alike say "Christ is the Savior" but not divine.  It got me thinking though...  10) How do we explain this passage?

Daniel 3:12-28 (New International Version)

12 But there are some Jews whom you have set over the affairs of the province of Babylon—Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego—who pay no attention to you, O king. They neither serve your gods nor worship the image of gold you have set up."

 13 Furious with rage, Nebuchadnezzar summoned Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. So these men were brought before the king, 14 and Nebuchadnezzar said to them, "Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the image of gold I have set up? 15 Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipes and all kinds of music, if you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?"

 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to the king, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, and he will rescue us from your hand, O king. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up."

 19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king's command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace.

 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, "Weren't there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?"
        They replied, "Certainly, O king."

 25 He said, "Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods."

11)  Who was the fourth person he saw?

 

John 1

The Word Became Flesh

 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a ] it.

 6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.[b ]

 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c ] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

 14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d ] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

12)  How do we explain this passage?

 Just a few things to think about in answering these 12 questions.

I have came to the conclusion that as the essence of "God" was housed in the Tabernacle and Temple, God's essence and very Spirit was indeed manifested in the person Jesus, as "Savior of the world;" and moreover, we worship God through Christ just like they did not worship the cloth of the Tabernacle or the stones of the Temple, but these places were where God chose to house himself - with the ultimate revelation being Jesus the Messiah.

So do I believe in God's Spirit being manifested in Christ?  Yes I do. 

But I will be the first to admit that the term "Trinity" is quite elusive, and can have several different meanings depending on who you ask; we will obviously not know these things concretely until we stand before God personally.  ;o)

The important thing is to accept Christ with all of your heart, accept his sacrifice for your sins, repent, read and study the Bible - pick up your cross and follow Him.

So in conclusion:

Has anyone seen God or not?

Exodus 24:9-11, Exodus 33:11, Exodus 6:2-3; and John 1:18

  1. Has seen
    1. (Gen. 17:1 ) – “Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty ; Walk before Me, and be blameless;
    2. (Gen. 18:1 ) Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.”
    3. (Exodus 6:2-3 ) – “God spoke further to Moses and said to him, "I am the LORD; 3and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.”
    4. (Exodus 24:9-11 ) – “Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank.”
    5. (Num. 12:6-8 ) – “He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a vision.  I shall speak with him in a dream. 7"Not so, with My servant Moses, He is faithful in all My household; 8With him I speak mouth to mouth, Even openly, and not in dark sayings, And he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant, against Moses ?"
    6. (Acts 7:2 ), "And he [Stephen] said, 'Hear me, brethren and fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran...'"
  2. Has not seen
    1. (Exodus 33:20 ) – “But He [God] said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live !"
    2. (John 1:18 ) – “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
    3. (John 5:37 ) – “"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”
    4. (John 6:46 ) - "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”
    5. (1 Tim. 6:15-16 ) – “He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.”

It is evident above that God was seen. But, considering the "can't-see-God" verses, some would understandably argue that there would be a contradiction. One explanation offered is that the people were seeing visions, or dreams, or the Angel of the LORD (Num. 22:22-26 ; Judges 13:1-21 ) and not really God Himself. But the problem is that the verses cited above do not say vision, dream, or Angel of the LORD. They say that people saw God (Exodus 24:9-11 ), that God was seen, and that He appeared as God Almighty (Exodus 6:2-3 ).

At first, this is difficult to understand. God Almighty was seen (Exodus 6:2-3 ) which means it was not the Angel of the Lord, for an angel is not God Almighty, and at least Moses saw God, not in a vision or dream, as the LORD Himself attests in Num. 12:6-8 . If these verses mean what they say, then we naturally assume we have a contradiction. Actually, the contradiction exists in our understanding, not in the Bible--which is always the case with alleged biblical contradictions.

The solution is simple. All you need to do is accept what the Bible says. If the people of the OT were seeing God, the Almighty God, and Jesus said that no one has ever seen the Father (John 6:46 ), then they were seeing God Almighty, but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I suggest that they were seeing the Word before He became incarnate. In other words, they were seeing Jesus.

If God is a type of "Trinity," (for lack of a better word), then John 1:18 is not a problem either because in John chapter one, John writes about the Word (Jesus) and God (the Father). In verse 14 it says the Word became flesh. In verse 18 it says no one has seen God. Since Jesus is the Word, God then, refers to the Father. This is typically how John writes of God: as a reference to the Father. We see this verified in Jesus own words in John 6:46 where He said that no one has ever seen the Father. Therefore, Almighty God was seen, but not the Father. It was Jesus before His incarnation. There seems to be more than one type of manifistation of the Godhead and therefore the doctrine of the Trinity seems to be the most accurate attempt for us (finite beings), to understand God (an infinite being).

All Glory to God -



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